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VMI: The Right Kind of Challenge with Karl Skerry '20
- How to Listen: Find us on Podbean to stream all of our episodes.
- Our Mission: This podcast aims to share leadership stories from our VMI Corps of Cadets and high-profile leaders who visit the Center for Leadership and Ethics (CLE) and VMI.
- Your Hosts: Derek Pinkham, Conference Project Manager and Emily Coleman, Assistant Conference Planner
- Connect with the CLE:
Our Center's mission is to enhance the VMI citizen-soldier journey with programming that educates, engages and inspires critical thinking, ethical decision-making, and leader development. The VMI Leader Journey podcast is an outreach program where our guests can share insights from their own leader's journey, and where VMI may have contributed to their personal growth.
In this episode, we touched on the following leadership competencies from the VMI Leader Journey: credibility, testing oneself, getting involved, and putting others in a position for success.
Transcript for The Right Kind of Challenge with Cadet Karl Skerry '20
DEREK PINKHAM: Welcome to the VMI Center for Leadership and Ethics Leader Journey podcast.
EMILY COLEMAN: This podcast aims to share leadership stories from our VMI Corps of Cadets and high profile leaders who visit the Center for Leadership and Ethics and VMI post. We're on this journey with you.
PINKHAM Hi, I'm Derek Pinkham.
COLEMAN And hey, I'm Emily Coleman.
PINKHAM We're your hosts for the podcast.
COLEMAN: Cadet Carl Skerry Class of '20 is the F-company commander, international studies major, and commissioning Marine from Berry, Massachusetts
PINKHAM: In this podcast, Cadet Skerry discusses his leadership experiences over the past four years.
COLEMAN: He talks about the importance of taking advantage of the opportunities offered at VMI to lead and having the motivation to seize those opportunities.
PINKHAM: And without further delay, we give you Cadet Skerry.
KARL SKERRY ’20: My name is Karl Skerry, I'm from Berry, Massachusetts and I originally came to VMI... I went to a Marine Corps recruiter and with the intent of talking about enlisting in the Marine Corps, and then as I got to talking to him, he persuaded me to apply for Marine Corps ROTC scholarship. And I did that and once I applied for it, I got it and I got into VMI.
PINKHAM: How did you hear about VMI?
SKERRY: So, I actually funny story. I've never actually visited VMI before matriculation day so I visited Norwich University and really liked the idea of Norwich University but it was half civilian half military and I knew I wanted a school that was all military. So I looked into VMI and just kind of decided to come here.
PINKHAM: Great. Wow. So sight unseen
SKERRY: sight unseen
PINKHAM: and did you know much about what the Rat Line was or anything like that?
SKERRY: No, no,
COLEMAN: Did you know anybody here?
SKERRY: I so, I knew... My sister had a friend that went here so I was able to talk to her before I came and everything she told me was kind of in line with what I wanted to do. Sparked my love for VMI is the Rat Line.
PINKHAM: It's what you were looking for really. Cool.
SKERRY: I definitely found it challenging. A lot more challenging than I thought it would be. But it was kind of a part of the reason I came here. Part of the reason I came here is because being from a really small town, I never really got to stack myself up against a lot of other, you know, or a lot of really talented people. So, I kind of want to see where I stacked up. Coming to a big school like this or a big military school, I knew I would have to stack myself up. So, just kind of come here and see where I'd stack up in front of everybody. That's what I was excited for.
COLEMAN: You liked the challenge.
SKERRY: I do.
PINKHAM: So, you were an international studies major.
SKERRY: Yes, sir.
PINKHAM: And you commissioned in the Marines, is that correct?
SKERRY: Yes, sir. I'll be commissioning in uh May. In May.
PINKHAM: So, you haven't yet but you will?
SKERRY: Yes, sir. I finished Officer Candidate School [OCS] this past summer and I'll commission in May.
PINKHAM: How was that? Like? What was that about?
SKERRY: It was tough, but I think VMI prepared me really well. The Bulldog program and Marine Corps ROTC is the basically the whole semester before you go to OCS, they prepare you physically, mentally, skills, all everything you need to know to go to OCS and succeed, you learn here and we win. And and we all did really well.
PINKHAM: How about on the leadership aspect of of those types of things? How did you feel you were against other candidates from other schools?
SKERRY: I felt confident in my ability to lead under stress coming from VMI just not even going through the Rat Line, but more as being cadre VMI just kind of learning how to excel and lead in that type of environment. And I found that the two environments were actually pretty similar to one another. And I think, whereas a lot of the individuals from other schools kind of had to go through that learning curve. We already kind of knew how to deal with distress and operate in that environment. So we had that advantage.
PINKHAM: Great.
COLEMAN: What leadership roles have you been in here at VMI?
SKERRY: So, I started off, I was a cadre corporal, my third class year and I became the Regimental Sergeant Major my second class year, and now my first class here I've kind of expanded kind of beyond the cadre rank system. So I'm the F-company commander. I commanded the NROTC battalion this past semester. I'm also on the club boxing team. AndI'm part of the cadet superintendent's advisory board, part of the CLE [Center for Leadership and Ethics]. And I do a couple of other academic type organizations, and I'm also in the Honors Program.
PINKHAM: Well, do you have any time to study?
SKERRY: Not really!
COLEMAN: What are you involved in the CLE?
SKERRY: At the CLE? So so far, the CLE, was a facilitator for the disruption conference, and I attended the Vietnam symposium a few years ago.
PINKHAM: Yeah.
SKERRY: And I'm also the, like I mentioned, that I was part of the Cadet Superintendent’s Advisory Board.
PINKHAM: Great.
COLEMAN: Awesome. So, how did you get in those roles? Is it something that you wanted to do or is it something you fell into?
SKERRY: So, the conferences I've always been interested in the conferences. I went to one last year in Missouri and kind of knew that I wanted to get more involved with it at VMI. And then I just joined the Cadet Superintendent's Advisory Board just through word of mouth, hearing what it was all about. And I knew that I kind of wanted to have my voice be heard, I thought I had some pretty good ideas as far as things we could do to improve around here. So, I kind of just figured out about that by word of mouth and got involved with that, too.
COLEMAN: So, do you think that being a part of those programs helped you grow as a leader?
SKERRY:Yes. So, I mean, if there's anything this year that I've learned, besides just time management with all the different things going on, I think it's important... especially here at VMI, to get yourself involved in every aspect of what VMI is about. So you have to challenge yourself academically, physically, mentally, emotionally, anyway, you can challenge yourself and put yourself in a different position. I think that's what makes you a good leader, especially here at VMI. Where your reputation is everything I mean, people notice what you do, what you're a part of and so I make it my personal goal to be as well-rounded as possible academically, physically, mentally, and I just kind of see that. Definitely what the CLE does is promoting the leadership aspect of of what that means.
PINKHAM: So, can you tell us a little bit about being the company commander for F-company?
SKERRY: Yeah.
PINKHAM: What does that mean for for you? What kind of leadership role is that?
SKERRY: Yes. So, the F-company commander. So, you have a couple different jobs. The first is primarily as your you have command over the company. So basically, everything that happens or fails to happen within the jurisdiction of that company falls under your leadership. And that's just kind of the textbook definition of what it means but what it essentially means is that my main job is I deal with everyone in the company, but I mainly focus on the first classmen in the second classmen to the third classmen, and kind of the Rat Line activities falling more on to the XO [executive officer] and he's more in charge of that aspect of things. So much job as a CEO is to oversee basically everything that goes on in the company. But I find the one of the most challenging parts of my job is having to do peer leadership, I find that to be over and over again, that proves to be the hardest type of leadership. So, just being able to uphold and enforce What I know is the right thing to do. But being able to do that in front of your friends, and especially being a first-class man and having all the other first-class men that are in my company that I've known for four years and, and being able to treat them the same as I would, you know, a rat in the sense of standards and stuff like that. So, just being able to kind of do that is probably the hardest part of my job.
PINKHAM: Yeah. No kidding.
COLEMAN: So, can you talk about how you got to that point, like, what's your leader journey been like, and how did you get to be the leader that you are?
SKERRY: Yeah, so I started off my third class year very only involved in the Rat Line, and it was kind of something that I came upon myself was I needed to kind of test my leadership beyond the Rat Line, because the leading rats is pretty easy. You tell them to do something and they do it almost instantly. And they'll do anything that you tell them to do. So it's really it's it's important leadership, but it's really I found that I needed to test myself beyond that. So I applied to be the Regimental Sergeant Major, my second class year, and I was chosen for that and that job definitely tested me beyond what it tested me as a cadre corporal. So in that way, it's kind of you're always under the microscope. So most of the time I was leading and dealing with third-class, second-class, and first-class cadets and as a second classman when dealing with first-class cadets, definitely challenge especially with a they look, they look down on you and everything like that. So and it's hard to earn respect and credibility in the eyes of them when you're a year younger than them you... they saw you as a rat and all those things. So one thing that I learned from that was that just being under the microscope, everything that you do is important and everything that you do goes noticed and basically nothing that you do goes unnoticed. So people notice when, instead of going out and party on a Friday night, if you stay in and do homework and work out, people notice things like that. And, and it's like I picture like kind of like a meter. And it almost like builds your credibility every time you make a good decision like that. It almost builds your credibility in the eyes of other people. So anytime they see you doing the right thing, you gain more credibility in their eyes. So I found the way to success with that job was to just kind of build as much credibility as I could and hope that that will work out and it seemed to and once I got into it and settled in, I think I was able to establish myself pretty well and be successful.
PINKHAM: Nice.
COLEMAN: How so?
PINKHAM: Sounds like you somewhere in your third-class year, sort of um... I don't know... something clicked. You also seem to also have have that the work ethic and sort of the personal stuff, kind of, pretty solid. And so that the leadership stuff follows.
COLEMAN: So, what are some improvements that you see that maybe you would like for VMI to make? Whether I mean it can be about the Rat Line it can be about the leader journey or just prepping, you know, rats and cadets to be better leaders and do you see anything through your years you would improve on?
SKERRY: Yeah, I do. And so the main thing that I think is I think the the whole, the leader journey is good. The path that it puts people on is good. I think if you follow that path, and you dedicate yourself to find that path, then you're gonna get everything that you possibly can out of VMI. So that's what I've tried to do. Sometimes. I think people like to kind of hide in the shadows, not necessarily.
COLEMAN: Yeah, that's a little tricky, because, you know, you can't just sit back and wait to be like, okay, now you're gonna do this leadership position, you kind of have to have some motivation to get involved. So, it has to be on, you know, maybe both VMI and the student.
PINKHAM: Right. It's, it's also a it's a personal journey, but it's also a class journey, a company journey. So, so you're thrust in these different
COLEMAN: How do you make everyone...
PINKHAM: Yeah, yeah, that's a good point.
SKERRY: Eventually, it falls on the individual. You got to put yourself out there.
PINKHAM: Yeah.
SKERRY: And you can't be afraid to put yourself out there. I think a lot of people are afraid to assume more responsibility. They think that maybe they don't have the time or maybe they don't stack up to everybody else. But what's important is that everyone just puts himself out there. And I think the best way to get everyone on this leader journey is that they need to put themselves out there and take a chance and take a chance on themselves and and see how they stack up as a leader. And the leader journey is great, but you got to you got to be one dedicated to it and to one just put yourself out there and follow it.
PINKHAM: Is there is it was there a time that you tried that leadership thing and it didn't quite work out and you had to figure it out and do something different?
SKERRY: I think there definitely was a point in my journey where I kind of stalled out a little bit. I, I guess it would be back talking about this. This time, my third class here when I was just a cadre corporal, I kind of came to be the point where I wondered what I was getting out of it, where I would go next, where I would go next to get something out of it. After the first couple of months of being there, I was like, wow, I can, I can do this. And that's, that's great. But what's next,
PINKHAM: what's next?
SKERRY: How am I gonna get better?
PINKHAM: Right, right. Did you did you have someone a dyke or a, you know, a br to talk to about that?
SKERRY: Yes. So actually, at the time when I was a third classman I talked to he was at the time he was the regimental executive officer. His name was Matt Esnardo he,
PINKHAM: yeah, he was one of our CLE interns. We liked Esnardo a lot.
SKERRY: He was a great he was a great intern to me. He was actually friends with my dyke and through my dyke, I got to be really good. So my dyke kind of passed me off to him. When my dyke graduated, he kind of told Matt to look after me and so I went and talked to Mat. about, kind of, where I was headed and he kind of summed it up for me pretty well just basically saying that the third class year as a as a member in this leader journey, you're learning basically the what? So you're learning what. Your second class year, you're learning the how and your first class year you learn the why. So he's just, he just says stick to it, stick to it. And you'll you'll get more out of it. put yourself out there. And so the whole put yourself out there thing is why I applied to be the RSM (regimental sergeant major) because I was like, I wanted to put myself out there. I want to test myself. I knew it was gonna be tough. It was a hard job, but I definitely want to put myself out there and see what I was made of.
COLEMAN: Good for you!
PINKHAM: And, yeah, success.
COLEMAN: My last question for you is what does leadership mean to you?
PINKHAM: It's a wide question, so yeah, it's interesting how different people will will they answer that question, because we've asked that almost every time.
SKERRY: Yeah. leadership to me is about ser... it's about servant leadership and leading and putting others in a position to succeed. I think that sometimes people get caught up on their own successes. And I've talked a lot about my personal successes. But I think to kind of sum it all up and tie it all up, it's it's not really about your own accolades or what you can do for yourself. It's about putting others in, in a position teaching them, teaching them how to do things, how to lead, how to make themselves leaders, teaching them grit. I think grit is really something that's really lost upon leadership in these days is leadership's not always, you know, butterflies and roses and everything like that. It takes a lot of grit, even when you're not talking about like leading in the military leadership in general just takes grit. It puts you in a lot of uncomfortable situations, and stuff like that. SoI think the the essence of leadership is sometimes being able to suck down your own pride and put others in a chance to succeed. Just make people tougher and better individuals better people in general.
COLEMAN: Awesome. Do you think that that definition has changed for you since you know, being a rat coming VMI?
SKERRY: I would absolutely say so.
COLEMAN: How so?
SKERRY: I don't really know how I don't think part of the problem was I don't think I knew really what leadership was.
COLEMAN: What it was. Yeah.
SKERRY: as a rat, or even as in when I was in high school, I think it's gone in a totally other direction than I thought it would, which is turn out good. But I think I would never have told you in high school that servant leadership was a thing or anything like that. It's just kind of always something I took for granted leadership was tell someone to do something, they go and do it and and then you know, that's that's it, right? I think yes. PINKHAM: That's management.
SKERRY: Yes. Yes, exactly. I think I thought I was a manager when really, there's a lot more to it that definitely VMI forced me to tap into and I tapped into just by my own curiosity.
COLEMAN: Awesome. Well, yeah, thank you for meeting with us. That was really fun.
SKERRY: Awesome.
PINKHAM: The Center for Leadership and ethics would like to thank the following Cadet Caleb Minus class of 2020. For the intro and backing music, find more of his musical stylings on his Instagram page at minus official M-Y-N-U-S official. Colonel David Gray, United States Army retired, director of the VMI Center for Leadership and ethics. And of course, as always, our podcast guests. Find this podcast and other Center for Leadership and ethics programming information on the VMI Center for Leadership and Ethics website or try our YouTube channel. Follow the VMI Center for Leadership and Ethics on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, and Instagram accounts. See you next episode of 'The Journey.' Thanks for tuning in! [music fades]
