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Transcript for "MAKING A LASTING IMPACT" 

Maj. Catherine Roy, Communications & Marketing Specialist: Welcome to our final episode of the 2021-22 VMI Leader Journey podcast for season two! 

I’m Maj. Catherine Roy, your host for this episode titled “Making a Lasting Impact.” With me are VMI Class of 2022 and newly commissioned Army officers Seth McRoberts and Ryan Cooper. 

McRoberts was a platoon leader for Charlie company, an English major, a member of the triathlon club, and cadet-in-charge (or CIC) for the Center’s Cadet-Superintendent’s Advisory Board (or CSAB) – a diverse group of cadets who volunteer their time to make recommendations on improvements to processes or policies affecting cadet life.

Cooper is an economics and business major, former captain of the NCAA Swim & Dive Team, and served with McRoberts as the assistant cadet-in-charge or ACIC for CSAB.

Both served as leadership conference table group facilitators. This volunteer role, an important factor in the success of our Annual Leadership Conference, requires pre-conference training that includes research on reading assignments on the conference theme and topics and attending training sessions.

Cadets who work as facilitators are responsible for leading the table group discussions. They learn how to handle a variety of communications styles, exercise critical thinking to challenge some of the feedback, and encourage everyone’s participation for a more valuable conference guest experience.  

During today’s conversation, you will hear about the projects they worked on and how they used their time at VMI to make a lasting impact, now and in the future. 

We hope you enjoy this episode. Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and help us by sharing this episode. We’d love to hear from you, so feel free to leave us a note in the comments! Now, let’s listen in.

ROY: What was the most surprising thing that you experienced or learned as a result of being here [at VMI]? 

RYAN COOPER, ’22: I actually told the story at the Keydet Club Donor Dinner the other night, and it was, it was the first time I've told it in a while. And as I'm about to graduate, it's been kind of cool reflecting on it. But I came up to VMI on an official visit for swimming, an NCAA visit, and at the time, I kind of viewed that experience as like, you know, that's just going to be my practice for my other official visits.

COOPER: I just to go up there and analyze and see what it's like to tour.

ROY: [Laughter.] Nice!

COOPER: Yeah, a little rehearsal for, for official visits. You know, I considered coming here, but it wasn't a very, a very serious thought, honestly. When I got here, I wouldn't say immediately, but probably within 12 or 24 hours of being here, my whole, my whole mindset of the experience and the opportunity pretty much changed. I saw, you know, as an 18-year-old, you know, kind of crazy to think about this, but I kind of saw how cadets were were spending their time, the relationships they had with one another. The time they'd spent investing in those relationships and how, you know, that was something genuine that you can't really find in a whole lot of places. And I remember driving away from, from VMI that week and just being shocked at you know, the level of maturity, you know, the level of dedication to each other into their selves. I think that's, that's their future. And at that point, there was no other place I want to go to school. 

ROY: So, when you came for your visit, did you do one of those weekend things or how long? I’m just wondering how you observed all that in your visit?

COOPER: So, mine was actually not an open house, which I felt to be probably helpful. I say I wouldn't have come here if I come to an open house. I think that's, that's a bit of a stretch, but I was in a room with an upperclassman. Here's a Second Classman at the time. So, he was on the back end of his cadetship. He was quite immersed in his academic curriculum at that point in time. He had some well-established friends, a well-established support system. And I think walking around with him and experiencing life down the road, as opposed to it being, you know, either, right, you're fourth-class year. You know, that was, that was a big difference in me seeing VMI really at face value if you want to call it that. You know, I was there during the rat lines. So, I got to see pretty much all that was going on there. But being able to look further than, than fourth stoop during the visit really allowed me to see the potential of the school had.

ROY: Were you paired with somebody in your same major or it didn't matter? 

COOPER: No, he was not my same major. He was, he was a different major, but he was a member of the swim team.

ROY: Oh

COOPER: So, he was, he was one of my future teammates.

ROY: OK. Yeah. All right. Cadet McRoberts how about you? 

SETH MCROBERTS, ’22: Yes, ma'am. So, I mean, in a lot of ways, a little bit similar to that idea of relationship but I'll get into the surprising factor later. When it comes to sort of my journey to VMI, there was a there was always a, a guarantee that I was going to be going to a military college because I wouldn't have it any other way. Knew the maturity of said military college has been around for it my entire life. We come from a very military family. 

ROY: You have family members who served?

MCROBERTS: Several. Several family members. One of which is graduated in 2015. So I think that was the biggest eye-opener I'd, I'd say now is my…

ROY: One of your older siblings?

MCROBERTS:  It was my, one of my older cousins and he, the first eye-opener was when I was, I think in the sixth grade, came here when he was a rat. And then in the ninth grade when he graduated in 2015, I came here for his graduation. Kind of saw his entire journey through, throughout VMI. I remember bringing him to the house before his graduation you know, very much reserved at the time. But I remember my mom asked him a question about his ring and he lit up when he, when he, you know, just like any VMI cadet when you ask about their ring. And I definitely found out, hey, you know, this is a really special place. And even when I talked to several West Point cadets, when I talked to Naval Academy cadets as well as the Air Force Academy, there wasn't that spark that, that VMI has.

ROY: Really? That’s kind of surprising!

MCROBERTS: And it was very surprising. You know, it's very interesting. The idea of the BR [Brother Rat – term used for classmates and other VMI members of the Corps and alumni] spirit was something that was just incredibly profound to me. And it was something that you see on the way to see in folks that, you know, serve in combat together, that there's, there's this unbreakable bond, you know. Not quite to that level, but I think we're very much on that path in the right direction that we’d definitely do anything for each other.

MCROBERTS: And that was a very special thing when it comes to relationships that Ryan was talking about, that it attracts pretty much the, the ones that want to stay here is probably why they stay, is because that idea that your BRs are going to be there with you, your fellow cadets are going to be there with you, they could take care of you. And that at the end of the day, VMI is a family.

ROY: Would you say that the Corps has an understanding of its mission, if you will, either by class or as, a as a whole body, as the Corps of Cadets? That's what I was going to say earlier, is that it's having… if you in your communications if you can focus on the mission, you know. We're here to graduate, but we're here to get through whatever the next hurdle or benchmark experience is, hey, we can do it together. I think that that does help bind people together. You can rally around a mission if, if not each other.

COOPER: I'll be pretty transparent in this answer here. I think that's it's a  pretty obvious thing to state that, you know, you're… the bond you have the people [whom] you meet here are strongest when you're a rat, right?

ROY: [laughing] And yet there's no there's, no fellowship like the fellowship of suffering. 

COOPER: Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, you go through a lot together with that group. And so, it's, it's understanding that that that would be the time where you all are strongest as a group. But I will say, and maybe this is just from my personal experience, I'll let Seth attest to this as well, is that I feel like the people the number of people [whom] you stay in touch with throughout the course of your cadetship is, is a real, is a real gift.

COOPER: A real blessing. I've I know plenty of friends from high school who, you know, knew people their first year through classes, through orientation, through a fraternity, or sorority, or something of that nature. And they just kind of evolve to their friendships which is natural, right? And I think the nature of VMI is different. But I've been, I've been really lucky to be in contact with a lot of people still who I was, I was either close with freshman year or at least had experiences with freshman year. And, you know, as I, as I come to graduate, I don't really see those relationships going anywhere. If that makes sense. And that's hard to come by. I mean, I look at my parents. My parents still hang out with a few friends from college, you know, they still make a point of seeing them on a, on a fairly regular basis. And as I look to, as I look to my alumni years, I'm, I'm fairly confident that I'll have either a strong or stronger of a, of a bond long-term with the people who I've met here.

ROY: So, one of the leadership values perhaps might be loyalty, right? As you build those bonds, as you build that trust would you say that loyalty has something to do with it or maybe something else?

COOPER: Well, it's one of those things. It's not a lot of people realize that when they're going through it, right? But you see it through how they interact with one another, and you see it when they come back for alumni reunions, you know. I've I know plenty of alumni from the seventies, eighties, as well as a few recent alumni and the way they speak about how their relationships have evolved since they've been here speaks volumes to, to the kind of relationships and friendships that this place builds. So, loyalty, I mean, when you're going through it, yes, a little bit, but stronger as you get older. Most definitely. 

MCROBERTS: I think. Definitely. Nah, today's society, there's a very throwaway culture type deal. And when it comes to relationships, that's a, that's a big one. And cultivating a very meaningful relationship that we see here at VMI is definitely one that is definitely centered on loyalty. And you have to have loyalty because, you know, you know your BRs and they're going to do really dumb stuff, some dumber than others throughout your, your cadetship. But having that loyalty there to them and having that perseverance to stick with them and say, hey, you made a, made a bad decision here. But now, you know, we're gonna pick each other up that is definitely the, the essence of loyalty there.

ROY: Those will be the stories you share at the reunions, too, over a beer, you know? 

COOPER: Exactly! There's, there's a stigma, though, in our culture of like, you know, sort of SFR like, oh, do you know so-and-so? I feel like the answer these days be like, oh, yeah, I know them. I follow them on Instagram, right? Or we connect on LinkedIn. I know them through - name the social media - I mean, like you, you fill in the blank, right? And VMI gets away from that in a really good way.

ROY: Well, you’re tested. I think, the environment tests you. And you really don't know. You don't know what you're in for until you go through hardships. I don't think. 

COOPER: I mean.

ROY: And joys, too. I mean, who stands with you? Who is cheering you when you're doing well? And is not jealous or envious, right?

COOPER: I mean, I think in an ultra-competitive college environment, those things are going to be present at least a little bit. I think that some competition’s healthy for friendships, but I think at the end of the day, yeah, the people who, you know here have got your back.

ROY: Yeah, I think that that's definitely true. If you're if it's a healthy kind of competition, where you're saying, “you can do it” and, “hey, I did this, oh, now I'm inspired. If you can do it, I can do it” kind of thing. I think that is healthy.

COOPER: You know, I'll step back, and I'll admit this, like, there are plenty of people here who I've met on this journey, and I, I envy what they've been able to accomplish. But in the same way, you know, I'm inspired by what they've done. And I just want…

ROY: Absolutely!

COOPER: you know, and I want it for myself, and I don't, I don't want it because they have it. I'm not jealous because they've achieved what they've achieved. But I look up to them you know, peer-to-peer. I'm like, you know, if you could do that, I want to be able to do that, too. And so, it kind of breeds that, those good competitive relationships. 

[Music Break] 

ROY: Yeah, that's great!

ROY: Since the both of you said that you are members of CSAB [Cadets’ Superintendent’s Advisory Board – a diverse group of cadets who tackle problem-solving that undertakes a project that improves cadet life or the cadet experience], have you been facilitators at either of our at any leadership conference while you were here?

MCROBERTS: Yeah. So, I know I've started out as a facilitator back last year. I would say in 2021 in our spring conference when we held it online. Colonel Gray did a very good job there, kind of mitigating and adapting to that. So, I started out as a facilitator online which took a lot more coordination with understanding how to, how to mute and how to perform on Zoom, and how to lead a group on Zoom. So that was a little bit more of an interesting factor, but we did a good job, nevertheless. And then moving into this, this year, 2021 in the fall, did the leadership conference here and that was run very well. I know it was a lot more enjoyable with people in person.

COOPER: I had a lot of the same experiences that Seth did. I think one of the biggest takeaways both going from doing it online or doing it in person was just being able to interact with more of a variety of people than what we experience here at VMI. You know, here at VMI it's a lot of just the same types of people pursuing the same types of things. But when you bring in people from other schools who have a more of a variety of interests, even older professionals, all right. I think that was a really good lesson for me. And being able to lead and facilitate people who knew more than I did and being able to take a step back even in a leadership role and learn from those people.

ROY: Well, let's talk about that a little bit. I guess Colonel Gray calls that having group think. And when he designs the leadership conference, he tries to challenge people's notions and break that up. So that's one of the reasons why when we do our in-person events, we mix the tables up so no more than two cadets at a table. We try to. We don't know the ages of people who are coming, but we try to put them in the public or other school attendees at, at everybody's table. Online I guess we didn't have that experience so much?

COOPER: From my recollection, we actually had more people. Like, the groups for almost equally or more split up online as they, as they were in person. I think those conferences did a really good job of, of highlighting, you know, diversity of interests, diversity of age. So, I did not really see a discrepancy between the two.

ROY: And what would you say is the biggest difference in, say, your barracks experiences or the experiences because you're you the ACIC (Assistant Cadet-in-Charge) for CSAB, is that right?

COOPER: Yes, ma’am.

ROY: And so, what's the difference, the biggest difference, that you've noticed in leading that group versus maybe a table group discussion at our leadership conference other than maybe not knowing the other participants.

COOPER: Yeah, that's, that's a really good question I would say, you know, based on my experience as a captain here at VMI, I think, you know, the biggest thing there is, you know, being more of an assertive leader, right? Like guarding something by by your knowledge, by people knowing who you are. Right. You know, with CSAB and Seth can attest to this as well.

COOPER: And up on the Hill, people know who you are and they know what to expect from you. And I think that kind of brings a different dynamic to the kind of leader who you are. Whereas on a table discussion where most of the people who are there are strangers, I mean, I remember, you know, my table at this past conference, I had cadets at the table. I didn't know. Right. So having to realize that and lead people based on them not knowing who you are and both having to consider, you know, how you lead and who you're leading. Right. Just the kind of thinking through that is, is a completely different process, but one that I think we're very confident and able to navigate here at VMI.

ROY: How about you?

MCROBERTS: And kind of add on to that what Ryan was saying is that when we talk about the table discussions, you have to have a, it's a very short time for you to really set the stage of what type of leader that you are and whether those folks should be listening to you at that table. And it's kind of a, I mean, it frankly, is a good introduction to what you will be doing as a, as a brand-new leader wherever in the civilian world or in the Army. You have to set that stage really quickly to understand, hey, I'm somebody to be listened to, and I should be leading this group. Just in the same way that at VMI, there is a hierarchy of, you know, the structural hierarchy, but in the same way, we are just all, you know, 18 to 22-year-olds being friends, you know? 

COOPER: He brought up a point that I kind of want to expand on a little bit. I think that, you know, if you go into an experience like leading a table discussion with too much of a notion of, oh, I'm the leader, then it could easily rub off on people the wrong way. So, I think that having those types of experiences, but knowing how to balance you know, being in charge, being in control versus simply achieving the objective of having a conversation are two totally different skills. And I think that you here we see some people struggle with that quite a bit. But so, but until you put yourself in that setting, you won't really know what that's like. So, I've, I've been grateful to have the experience knowing the difference between, you know, getting up in front of a group leading from the front and kind of taking a step back and in allowing my presence to facilitate something and get something done, but not necessarily, you know, who I am, like, my character being, being that.

ROY: Yes. So, when you are a facilitator, you're really trying to encourage others to have the conversation or to participate. Whereas when you're in CSAB and you're leading the group, you're you've got an agenda, you're following, you know, certain orders, you've got to get that product done or finished. So, what tactics would you say that you used between the two was? Teach someone how to be a facilitator. What would you tell them?

MCROBERTS: I would say I have a very open mind. When it comes to that open mind, you need to be able to have just enough structure so that the group isn't lost, but just little enough structure that the group isn't confined as well. But to expand upon that, when you talk about just enough structure, you have enough key questions, and key discussion points to go off of so that they still have a focus or direction. However, that focus, or direction could take a left or right at, at certain points in time, you still have a direction that you're going, nevertheless. When it comes to just little enough structure, you don't want to have too many questions and too many guiding points to be able to say, hey, this is our agenda, this is where we're going, this is what you should be answering the question with rather we want the question to be answered with 50 answers rather than just, you know, one or two.

ROY: Yeah, that's one of the challenges that we have when we teach the facilitation instruction. We do two or three trainings leading up to that. Can you talk a little bit about that experience and what that was like?

COOPER: I think it's pretty crucial to have at least a few dry runs into kind of go through the environment that you're going to be in. You know, I was always raised with the saying you have two ears in one mouth for a reason. And if I can kind of summarize what we do in those trainings, I would probably say that's what it is, honestly, because it's more of a practice. So, taking yourself away from the type of leadership you see a lot of in the Corps and making it more of that, you know, that facilitator role, the I'm going to be quiet. I'm gonna let you talk, right? But we have to have a discussion. We have things we have to get done. But I want to hear what you have to say. Your, your opinion is on the same playing field or more important than mine, you contribute to the discussion just as much or more than I do.

ROY: Would you say that you learn to use or frame open-ended questions?

COOPER: Absolutely. I mean, I think that being able to understand where the conversation is going and frame those questions accordingly, to keep the group thinking both on task as well as being creative about it, I think I think that was an art we learned in those training exercises that wasn't only applicable to the conferences themselves but will be, will be the same way down the road in life as well.

ROY: Has that training maybe helped you with conversations in the barracks or with maybe on the sports teams that you participated with?

MCROBERTS: Very much so. I know even in even in CSAB, we understood that there's a whole lot more people than just Ryan and I committing to the discussion, right? And just like the two ears, one mouth thing, it's a whole lot more productive to hear the folks who are actually going to be doing the legwork for our group and any group in that matter so that they can have the chance to do all the legwork. And then we're able to make a more informed decision at the end of that. I mean, frankly, that's just leadership in general. You want to ask for $0.02 for your entire team, because if you don't, then you're going to be missing a lot of pieces to the puzzle then.

COOPER: Yeah. There's one other point to that, though. I found that when you have that open-ended creative approach to, to conversations with your team as a leader, and I, I found this with NCAA, is that when people feel like they can trust you with their opinion, they're so much more willing to buy into what you have to sell, right? Like, you guys are going to be a much better team, you're going to work so much better together if you can honestly give people a chance to give their opinion and share what they have to say. And if you're receptive to it, that, that really pays off when, when it comes to, to working well as a team.

ROY: What would you say was the biggest lesson you learned leadership-wise from those experiences? How could you describe your strategy for building trust?

COOPER: You know, I would say that the biggest lesson I've learned throughout this whole process and kind of taking a step back and evaluating who you are as a leader, whether it be in the LEAD 344 (Leadership in Organizations) course to the programs here at the CLE, etcetera, is the amount of value you have to put on the people who you serve in order to be effective I think that Seth kind of hit on this when he talked about the CSAB, but there are so many people in that group who were so much better connected to people at VMI than Seth and I were who had, you know, considerably better skills in one area or another than Seth and I did. And even though we were the leader of that group, right, like, we had to. We did place a lot of trust and had to put a lot of value on those people. And I think it's a, it is a big transition going from being a high school kid who thinks, you know, everything and feels like you're owed something by everybody, right? Like as a leader, like, wow, you know, I'm the leader. You owe me something since I'm in charge, right? It goes it takes a lot to go from that to having that mindset of, wow, you know, I might be in charge, but you're here. You're here to help us, right? Like I might be the one who makes the final say. I might be the one who, who's making the calls, but I'm looking to you just as much or more than you're looking to me. And I think that's a really important lesson that both of us have gained from this experience.

MCROBERTS: Yeah, definitely. To add on to this is definitely a piece that I'm very well versed and feel quite passionate about is the idea of servant leadership. I know even, you know, LEAD 344, we learn about all sorts of types of leadership. Servant leadership is the, is the guaranteed one that you want to be as a leader, hands down. And it's not.

ROY: Can you describe that or define that for the audience? 

MCROBERTS: Absolutely. So, servant leadership is the idea of true leadership in which you are there to serve your team, and your team is there to make the team better. Your job is to do two things one, shoulder the blame whenever there's anything bad that happens to the team, anything, any failures that happen, and your job is to pass the credit to the team, whatever any success happens to the team. So, obviously, we see that in many different facets of VMI, many different facets in the real world. That is one that I've definitely seen throughout either high school and coming up into VMI and then definitely continuing past VMI. There was an interesting speech that was given by an Air Force Four-Star at the Air Force Academy, and he would just simply throughout his entire speech, he would pull up various folks who were, you know, enlisted to lower, lower-ranking officers and he would say, all right, these people did extraordinary things. They did X, Y, and Z, your job is to be worthy to lead them rather than the other way around.

[Music Break]

ROY: As a member of CSAB, you guys have a project each year. It may be one that continued from the previous year, or it might be something new on the table. What was your project and then what was that experience like?

MCROBERTS: It's something that's not official at VMI that should be fixed and that would definitely make the VMI experience better. So, when it comes to this, we, we worked over the past two years to really refine down what's something that would make the VMI experience better? So, obviously, culture, communication, various things like that. We came to three big COAs by the end of last year that we briefed General Wins on.

ROY: And for the audience, what's a COA?

MCROBERTS: Absolutely. Course of action is sort of the, the shortened that… or the long version of what a COA is. And so, a course of action that we came up with is one how does it deal with cadets to their rats, as well as staff to cadets, as well as the Board of Visitors to, to the cadets; as well. We found out that the Board of Visitors to cadets and the rats to cadets kind of a communication issue that was going on was already solved. But the comm’s [commandant’s] staff communication to the cadets and cadet intercommunication was less efficient than it needed to be. And so, we, you know, we [troubleshot] it, “Hey, how are we going to solve this?”

ROY: What kind of secondary unintended consequences were happening?

MCROBERTS: One of which is comm’s staff. You know, the Corps, from the Corps’ perspective is comm’s staff isn't listening to us. And then from comm’s staff's perspective, the Corps isn't reading our emails. The Corps isn't getting our, our information and/or is just not caring about it. So, there's this.

ROY: And how accurate would you say that is as a, as a cadet?

MCROBERTS: Its’ quite accurate. You know, because I've talked to several members of comm staff and they're like, cadets don't read their emails. And then I would talk to the Corps and they're like, com staff doesn't understand where we're coming from. And there's a serious communication divide. So obviously over the past year, we've [troubleshot] at that problem. We came up with this idea of an app, right? And I won't get into too much of the nitty-gritty of the app, right? Marks [another member of CSAB] is a whole lot more prepared to give the nitty-gritty than I am. But the essential background is it's one app that would conglomerate all of our information and all of the communication that's ever used at VMI and put it into just one single solitary app that both comms staff the Corps can use. And there will be flat communication. Flat communication being defined as communication that everybody's on the same page, everybody's on the same wavelength. And that's really where you need to be as an organization.

ROY: I have to ask the obvious question. If cadets aren't reading emails, will they read content on an app? I guess that's a question I have.

MCROBERTS: Exactly. So, we will definitely [troubleshot] that problem as well. And we kind of found out, you know, this is the information generation and one of those facets of the information generation is that everything is on the cellular phone.

ROY: As you did your research, and again, don't need to get into specifics as to which app it is or how it's going to function, I'm sure that will come later, what was that experience like? You know, did you have to meet with the comms staff to get their input or feedback, or did you have did they have an opportunity to describe the kinds of communications they wished to parlay to the Corps? What kind of research did you have? Did you put together some focus groups or how did that go?

COOPER: We saw the Corps as our, as our biggest asset in the way that if we get the Corps behind something that they could use, and we could pitch it, we could pitch it then, then we'd have a much better success rate of getting, getting the comm’s staff involved in that buy in. Yeah, absolutely. Extremely important, especially with, with a group this big and, and this diverse. 

COOPER: But we, we surveyed the Corps. We did we kind of sat down with, with separate groups of people and discussed both within niche groups as well as on a broad scheme, you know? What would you like to see? What would make this more of a usable utilitarian feature, right? Like, what would make this utilitarian tool? We came to find out that while this could originally be used as a communication tool, that there were so many other avenues that we could take on this as well and make it that much more of a of, a useful thing that people would want to do. So, what started as a communication solution kind of grew into something much bigger. And the more we dug, the more opportunities we found.

ROY: What was the temperature, if you will, of the, those whom you surveyed? Were they excited about this opportunity or…?

COOPER: I would say, for the most part, people were like, wow, they'd actually be a really awesome thing if we could, if we could make that happen. You know, we are very happy and fortunate to have this kind of on the forefront of people's minds right now. And we're lucky enough to probably have our pilot out for, for next year's group. So, we're very excited.

ROY: Would you say that COVID or the COVID environment or that experience, because you guys were here when you matriculated, was COVID starting or kicking in? So, you had a full, did you have a full…

COOPER: With a full year, full year-and-a-half.

ROY: Regular year and then yours, your third-class year was blown up? 

COOPER: Second semester, third-class year. And when things start to go a little haywire.

ROY: And so, would you say that now you've had experience before, during, and after COVID; what did the communications issues come to more of a fore, forefront through that experience or did it highlight in any way, or did this just always exist?

COOPER: Here's what I'll say now. I'll let Seth say what he wants to is, I know he has a pretty strong opinion, this is, you know, COVID exposed a lot of our weaknesses, but it also exposed a lot of opportunities.

ROY: Excellent.

COOPER: Right? And I think that, you know, how we operated during COVID as a VMI community really showed us what we're capable of and how we can get better, even though it may have took some growing pains, if you want to call them that, to get us there. So when I look back on our experience and…

ROY: To be honest, any kind of culture change, any kind of, you know, adjustment is it takes some time to transition.

COOPER: Absolutely. And Seth said this is a two-year process, which it was. And kind of watching this develop over the last two years, it's kind of shown how we're stronger from the COVID experience, how, how there are these opportunities that we need to capitalize on if we want this to be a better experience for some people.

MCROBERTS: Yeah, very much so. So, it's kind of an add-on to what Ryan's saying is. COVID definitely exposed those weaknesses in communication that we have and definitely exposed at least to the idea of what's going on and how policy affects us and the communication of said policy trickling down through the chain of command so that, you know, when it comes to that, that's really where this communication idea grew out of. And I really think that sort of that passion fueled the fire to really get this communication app. It’s absolutely a solution on the way.

ROY: Yeah. So, in 2019 when we did our Fall Leadership Conference, the title escapes me now ’cause I’m just in a blur right now preparing for next year. At the conclusion of that event, the audience, cadets, and everybody else who was there they basically identified, we were talking about how we're all in digital technology era and 21st century. What was the most useful leadership tool that people needed to develop in the coming decades, basically and communication was number one. So, I'm not surprised that that that was an area that you guys identified that everybody's complaining about because it's not only just about getting the right information to the right ears so that it's actionable, but it's also using the right terminology. I mean, I find a lot of people have conversations, and you think you're talking about X and they think they're talking about X when really, you're talking about two different things, and you just talk past each other, and it gets frustrating trying to get people on the same page. 

MCROBERTS: You know, President and General Eisenhower said, you know, plans are nothing, but planning is everything. If you read into that, the idea of planning, the communication of communicating said plan is everything. That's kind of what he meant by that planning is everything rather than the plans or everything. So, when it comes down to, you know, VMI as a whole, obviously we're a huge leadership lab is being able to communicate any sort of plan, whether it's comms staff or the Corps or the Board of Visitors, is essential to making this place run so efficiently.

ROY: Each year, the center picks a leadership theme. And I've been asking all of our guests this year their thoughts on our theme this year, which was citizen leadership. Of course, we say that VMI, that we graduate citizen-soldiers talk about that theme. And have you felt like that been highlighted at all for you this year or what are your thoughts on that? 

MCROBERTS: Yeah, I think, you know, I'm not going to give a history lesson or anything here. But I mean, kind of going back to ancient Greece, there is this idea, and even ancient Rome as well is this idea of that you're responsible for your community. You're responsible for the, you know, demos back in the day.

ROY: Kind of speaks, I would think, to your idea of that servant leadership too. 

MCROBERTS: Exactly.

ROY: The individual makes up those societies.

MCROBERTS: Exactly. And you know, one man or one woman has the ability to impact their, not just their nation, but more so their community on a very more realistic perspective in that it's not only their ability to do so, but their responsibility to do so. And to affect their, their community I think, you know, that goes back to the key of the Declaration of Independence as well.

MCROBERTS: But we won't get into too much history here. But we, yeah, when it comes to citizen leadership, we see it a lot in the military, where it's the military is a very professional organization now. And it's like once you get out of the military, it's like, oh, your leadership journey is done. But it really isn't. It's really you know, I wouldn't say, you know, make it a cliche. It's like it's just begun. But it's, it's your responsibility to then go and take all of your experiences as you as you've done that. And, you know, let's say it's military or government organization and bring it back into your civilian organizations and the faith, the places that you touch. Frankly, it's a lifelong journey. And it's really, for us, it's just the beginning of ours. And we're hoping to make a lasting impact.

ROY: Excellent. 

COOPER: I think the whole theme of citizen leadership obviously comes at a very convenient time. And, you know, VMI done a very good job of, of cultivating the fact that, you know, breaking down what makes us different and building up what, what makes us so similar, right? Like people come to VMI from all different backgrounds. They're broken down the same way. They put on the same uniform every day. And a lot of them have very similar goals, right? And I think as we as, we move away from VMI into the real world, as, as cadets, that it's important to realize that, you know, if you see the, if you see every opportunity with somebody like that as you move forward, you know, if you look at how similar you are to that person as opposed to what all your differences are, it makes it so much easier to build relationships, right? And whether you're a Democrat or Republican, black, white, male, female, religious, not religious, like you have something to offer society, right? And being able to realize that someone who's different from you has those abilities and those contributions makes it so much easier for us to operate better in terms of our relationships with each other and society as a whole. 

ROY: So, honoring each other's humanity, basically.

COOPER: Yeah, absolutely. You know, we all, we all come from different experiences. We all want different things. That's the nature of who we are as people, right? But that doesn't make you any more or less of a person because you think differently than I do. If that makes sense.

ROY: Well, thank you very much.

COOPER: Absolutely.

ROY: And it's a great place to stop. I appreciate your time, Cadet Cooper, Cadet McRoberts; thank you for being guests on the VMI Leader Journey podcast. We hope all of you listening will like and share this episode.

COOPER: Thank you, Major Roy.

ROY: On behalf of the VMI Center for Leadership and Ethics. We thank the following. Mr. Caleb Minus VMI class of 2020 for the intro and backing music, find more of his musical stylings on his Instagram page at minus official. That's @MYNUSOfficial. Colonel Dave Gray, Ph.D., U.S. Army retired director of the VMI Center for Leadership and Ethics. And of course, as always, our podcast guests. 

Find this podcast and other CLE programming information on the VMI Center for Leadership and Ethics website VMI, dot edu forward-slash CLE. Follow the VMI Center for Leadership and Ethics on YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, or Instagram accounts.

The VMI Center for Leadership and Ethics educates, engages, and inspires the VMI Corps of Cadets, VMI staff, faculty and alumni, and listeners like you. Thanks for tuning in.